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Discussion Topic: GIVEN OVER |
 selah |
02-13-2007 @ 12:47 PM |
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ROM 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
against all ungodliness and unrighteousness
of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
ROM 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is
manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto
them.
ROM 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made, even
his eternal power and Godhead; so that they
are without excuse:
ROM 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they
glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations, and their
foolish heart was darkened.
ROM 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became
fools,
ROM 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God
into an image made like to corruptible man, and
to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping
things.
ROM 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness
through the lusts of their own hearts, to
dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
ROM 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and
worshipped and served the creature more than the
Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I recently heard a sermon on this part of Romans 1. Something
came to me that opened a dramatic line of thinking. If you read
this section, you initially get the idea that if you don't
worship idols, and avoid sexual sin, you must be doing OKAY.
This section however, is one of those where the more you
understand, the more you feel guilty. I could go on and on about
what it reveals to me, but I won't do this because I KNOW there
will be others, who visit this board and post, who will add to
it  . Note the following:
"who hold the truth in unrighteousness"
What this says to me is that not only can unrighteousness be
truth to some, it can FEEL like the truth.
"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the
lusts of their own hearts,"
I think the key here is the idea that God "gave them over" to
whatever it is that they chose as significant, ignoring the
obvious truth. Don't be confused by the word "lust" here. It is
used to describe ANYTHING sought out with fervent desire, which
is outside of the path of righteousness. Because many or most
have chosen these wayward paths, we now have many weird things
which have sprung forth from these "foreign roots". A good
example is the thirst for knowledge, and the after effects. We
are so immersed in this idea, that it's become second nature.
If an 18 year old wants to borrow money from Dad to go to
college, most parents will enthusiastically make an effort to
support the child. If however they want some support while on
a 40 day fast in the wilderness, you might hear "you wanna WHAT?"
Because we chose knowledge many years ago, it's become a major
"problem root", which has led to many other aberrations.
There are other more obvious signs of this "given over"
phenomenon. We see people doing and craving things, and wonder
what in the world it is that drives them. Alcohol and smoking,
which the body initially tells you, "don't put that in me!"
Strange cults, which are obviously fraudulent, and there are
many who are hooked anyway. By now I guess you get the idea.
Dave
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| rosebud |
02-13-2007 @ 1:40 PM |
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DAve,
What a good post for discussion. The Word of God will clearly bring the best of christians under conviction.
This knowledge of good and evil opened up as they say "Pandora's Box". A friend who I met on this board in her book Caling Forth The Remnant By Way of the Cross" really goes into detail about the problem of the knowlege of good and evil. It is a flesh problem indeed
Her website is
http://www.ekklesia4him.net/
It is worth reading
In one post, I believe it was you Dave, you had scriptures that almost seemed like a oxymorans. Consider this
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge Hos 4:6)
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow (Ecc 1:18)
My questions to the board. Is knowlege good or bad? When is it good? When is it bad? What makes the knowledge of good and evil so dangerous?
Thanks Dave for opening up this.
Rose
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| selah |
02-13-2007 @ 7:53 PM |
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My people are destroyed for lack of knowledgeHos 4:6)
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth
knowledge increaseth sorrow (Ecc 1:18)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Interesting comparison Rose. The word knowledge has a
problem, similar to some others used in the scriptures,
in that they can have more than one meaning. You may
recall the expression "Adam KNEW his wife and she
became pregnant." I think the original term meant "an
intimate relationship with". So when the snake gave
the temptation, it was to form this type of connection
with the good/evil doctrine.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My questions to the board. Is knowlege good or bad? When
is it good? When is it bad? What makes the knowledge
of good and evil so dangerous?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I will wait and see how this thread developes, before
getting into a major tangent where I CAN'T STOP TYPING .
Dave
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| rosebud |
02-15-2007 @ 3:38 PM |
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Dave,
And I know you will
That's the Dave I know and love.
rose
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| selah |
02-16-2007 @ 11:39 AM |
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Thanks Rose, I was just thinking about what it
would have been like if this discussion had
been brought up about 5 years ago. By now there
would be many compliments/agreements, a few
arguments, a phillibuster or 2, and many replies
of course. Numbers are good as a rule, but at
least for the moment, there are no chronic
trouble makers. That in itself is a lot to be
thankful for.
Dave
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| cindydg |
06-15-2007 @ 4:29 PM |
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What a great topic for discussion! Perhaps 'knowledge' in and of itself can be viewed as neutral - to the point where the direction it takes the one who has it or is pursuing it. What is the motive, and what are the results? And..most importantly, what is the source?
Knowledge just to satisfy curiosity alone can lead to some pretty risky opening up of one's mind. But seeking knowledge to produce Godly wisdom, based on the Word, is what we're after.
Knowledge puffs up, for sure, if that's where it ends: just getting more. Years ago, the Lord had me take a long, hard look at how much I was stuffing into my head. I realized I was just "snacking" all day, not really waiting for a meal. So ever since, I've stayed aware of how many sources of learning and knowledge I'm exposing myself to every week. So I can focus on what He would truly have me to learn and know.
In Pursuit, Cindy
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| rosebud |
06-22-2007 @ 4:03 PM |
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quote:
What is the motive, and what are the results? And..most importantly, what is the source?
Knowledge just to satisfy curiosity alone can lead to some pretty risky opening up of one's mind. But seeking knowledge to produce Godly wisdom, based on the Word, is what we're after.
I realized I was just "snacking" all day, not really waiting for a meal. So ever since, I've stayed aware of how many sources of learning and knowledge I'm exposing myself to every week. So I can focus on what He would truly have me to learn and know.
In Pursuit, Cindy
Wonderful insight. And truly that is wisdom.
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